Hi everyone! As a Jewish person, I abhor antisemitism in all its forms. Also (still) as a Jewish person, I find Israel's (U.S.-funded) bombing of Gaza to be a horror. There is nothing antisemitic about voicing that criticism. In fact, Jews across the world have been demonstrating in solidarity with the Palestinian people for the past month. This is not an endorsement of Hamas nor is it a blind eye turned towards antisemitic violence. It is deeply in keeping with Jewish values, and I find it extremely moving. It is possible, and righteous, to want peace for Jews and Palestinians. Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing government is doing nothing to bring about this peace, and instead is choosing to add recklessly to an escalating death toll (not to mention refusing opportunities to secure the safe return of hostages). It is a mitzvah, in my opinion, to expand one's radius of compassion even in the face of fear and grief. Pulling support from this event over a pro-Palestinian sentiment under the presumption that it would be antisemitic by default does not seem to me like an act of heroism. It feels like a withdrawing of solidarity from members of the literary (and human) community who are also experiencing real pain. To anyone who read this far, I appreciate you for hearing me out. That said, I don't have any interest in arguing here, so I will be replying to any comments I don't like with sarcasm and insults. It will not be productive, and it will ruin both of our days. Thanks again for your time.
Thank you so much for your heart Josh! As a half Jewish woman, I recognize the sacredness of each member of our human family and the rampant corruption in every government. To Zibby, I deeply abhor antisemitism and have experienced plenty of it online. Yet Israel's founding is deeply tied up with atrocities, as has been its expansion, long before this latest attack. There are forces that use horrors and their divisions to sweep in with an answer that sanitizes power usurpation. Israel has often done things that run counter to the best interest of Jewish people. All governments do. "in this case of Israel and the Jewish people" - this sentence is a problem. To condemn antisemitism is so important. Yet the conflation of Israel's government with the Jewish people totally off base! To call people self-hating Jews for questioning Israel is true gaslighting. I call for its end NOW! I support Jewish people in feeling loved, safe and free. I support the same for all. People are only vulnerable to being recruited as terrorists when their human rights, there basic needs are only met by terrorist groups. Om Mani Padme Hum. Shalom. Salaam. Peace. A thousand blessings for every terrorized heart. May we see through the bullshit and recognize that ending antisemitism will be forwarded, not hindered by supporting Palestinian freedom and respect for inalienable rights as sacred vessels of consciousness in form, the vibrant expression of One Heart. From the No-Thing let us birth sovereign solutions that reflect healing for all, and lead to joy, peace and abundance for our whole human family.
I am not sure what you are trying to say...who is the He's - did you mean Jews? I understand the love of Israel and the feeling of safety that many Jews derive from it but I do not believe oppressing others can ever lead to peace for the oppressors, even if the oppressors are themselves seeking safety from their own oppression. Israel has been involved in many blackmail/surveillance operations that seek to control the world and that (seeking to control) is what all of us do when we are afraid of something bad happening again. So my belief is we need to go inside and heal ourselves.
I believe Zibby was asking for assurances that should there be antisemitic rhetoric ZBF had a plan in place to not allow their event to be a platform for hate. I do not think Zibby meant that an award recipient could not express concern for Palestinians civilians in Gaza. Those are two veey different things.
"A platform for hate" is often used to silence dissent - in this case political dissent. If someone were to say something directly antisemitic of course any decent person would agree that they should not be re-invited to the table. However, to criticize Israel has been inappropriate instilled in the collective as equivalent to being anti-semitic. Criticizing hamas is not anti-muslim or anti-arabic. It is criticizing the actions of a group that does terrible things. Criticizing a formal government that engages in consistent acts of terrorism is no different.
I understand the distinction and thank you for the response. However, the unbalanced condemnation of Israel versus other governments does have antisemitic roots and needs to be acknowledged. Also, to criticize Israel but not Hamas is a strange way to underscore the inhumane treatmen of the Palestinian people. While I do believe Netanyahu has been bad for Israel and for the plight of Palestinians and I disagree with his political agenda, I also believe the Palestinian people’s circumstances are much more a direct consequence of Hamas’ siphoning of aid and inhumane propaganda campaign keeping innocent civilians living in poverty as “martyrs” (although really sacrificial lambs) than the Israeli government. In other words, how can you point to the Palestinian people’s pain and not apply blame to Hamas but only apply blame to Israel? Doesn’t that ring false and raise questions about the person pointing the finger? It makes me think that person is antisemitic.
This is such a racist reply that implies the Palestinian people aren't suffering under an apartheid occupation with their ability to own, earn, and move about freely in their own neighborhoods and even houses at times. Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world and one of the most powerful militaries. This notion that they aren't to blame for the conditions of everything prior to the current ethnic cleansing and genocide that is currently happening mirrors how racists in this country always bring up black-on-black crime while ignoring systemic racism that to this day targets innocent members of the community while starving them of resources, education, healthy food, jobs, and on and on. Hamas was supported by Netanyahu and magically wasn't touched on Oct 7th for 6 hours and now he is flattening Gaza and mass amounts of human lives and giving contracts out to oil companies as the IDF takes control of land directly in front of the sea where they will drill. Publications from inside Israel have reported about his connections to Hamas. You haven't done enough reading on this situation and it shows. Please do better and stop using antisemitism to help cover for war crimes.
Borders were closed on the Israeli side and EGYPTIAN side because Hamas was waging terror attacks son innocent civilians in both countries. ✅
Israel perpetrates ethnic cleansing and genocide ❌
The Palestinian population has more than doubled ✅
There is intersectionality between systemic racism marginalizing Black Americans and the Palestinian oppression ❌
Black Americans have been systemically discriminated against for centuries as is seen through systematic oppressive laws and barriers to entry like the GI Bill, Red Lining, Segregation, Gentrification/Imminent Domain and many more systemic inequities. Palestinian people living in Israel experience full equal rights and access and make up 20% of the Israeli citizenship. They hold high level positions and are almost 30% of the Knesset. Palestinians living in Gaza unfortunately are governed by Hamas who bully, torment and oppress their civilians in addition to brain wash them to hate Jews and Arabs living in Israel. Hamas uses Palestinian civilians living in Gaza as human shields and propaganda sacrificial lambs. Look at the wake of violence Hamas leaves behind and the tunnels they build under hospitals and schools and refugee camps. Look at the wealth of the Hamas leaders versus the poverty of the fighters and civilians risking their lives. The discrepancy is in front of your eyes. Do you really believe the group that drops flyers telling civilians before they bomb and pausing to let civilians through border crossings and providing humanitarian care to civilians is the problem? Not the group that beheaded babies and raped and tortured innocent civilians? Use your common sense. One group is backed by a democracy where people of different religions and backgrounds live in prosperity and peace while the other is run by a radical Islamic regime who beheads people who are different from them. One has a charter calling for the extinction of a people based on their religion and the other has a democratic mission. Really, use your head and wake up.
-I didn't say he funded them. I said he supported them. Nice try though.
-Israel has been designated an apartheid state by Human Rights Watch in 2021, Amnesty International in 2022, and Israel scholars and former Israeli officials have also started using this designation. In 2022, Michael Ben-Yair, a former attorney general of Israel, said that “it is with great sadness ... I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime.” Earlier this year, Tamir Pardo, a former head of Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, emphasized, too, that “there is an apartheid state here” featuring “two people [who] are judged under two legal systems. Again, nice try.
-The Palestinian population has doubled since Oct 7th? Interesting. I'd love to see that evidence. The more you know.
-Palestinians don't experience equal rights which is why they are designated by the groups and individuals smarter than you that I listed as living in an Israeli apartheid state.
-Yes, Hamas is in Gaza. If Hamas was at an elementary school with your loved one in it would you want the government to bomb it to get Hamas? I didn't think so. You're showing you don't care about Palestinians because they aren't the right melanin.
-They drop flyers and then bombs after they lie about the amount of time they gave and had no plan for the elderly, sick, disabled, and hospitalized. I'm in awe at your blatant rationalizing of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza. Whew.
-Israel itself admitted they lied about beheaded babies. That doesn't mean civilians weren't killed. It is an example of how Israeli govt lies to warrant their war crimes. No evidence was ever found. You gotta keep up with the latest propaganda that's been debunked Hillary.
-Islamophobia. Saw that one coming a mile away. One group is not backed by democracy they are literally jailing Israelis for posting and liking what they deam anti-zionism material. There are videos of some of the arrests and also videos of them torturing or murdering innocent farmers in North Gaza. All that coupled with their ethnic cleansing and genocide points to them being run by fascists.
Try more reading and watching of the Palestinian experience and members of that community unless, of course, you don't see them as equal. Also, try not to copy and paste from articles or social media posts you looked up real quick to try to sound well-read but didn't actually read. Or hide it better. It was too obvious.
Thank you for pointing this out, Hillary. Really important....I think Zibby was asking if the NBF had any plans in place in case the comments made were antisemitic in nature and whether NBF inadvertenly became a platform for hate by allowing a statement to made by the all the authors. It seems, based on the information that we have (which admitedly may not be complete) that NBF had no plans to place to do anything if their platform was used inappropriately. I think that is what Zibby was reacting to, and I support her in that. I'm all for authors having their say on all issues (it would be nice if their group comment tonight spoke to author silence on massacres in Syria or detentions in China) and even saying something at the ceremony about a ceasefire. But if hateful, antisemitic comments are also included, NBF should have a plan in place to respond. It seems they have come up, not surprisngly, empty. (Of course, had this been any other community besides Jews/Israelis, there would be a plan in place presumably. But that is a another topic.) I'm glad NBF is allowing authors to have their say. NBF had a chance to reassure one of its donors that it would be on top of things if the statement was inappropriate and it couldn't provide that assurance to the sponsor. The sponsor walked away. That's how these things are supposed to work. Sounds like NBF, a group I really respect, blew it. Be angry at them, not Zibby.
It’s delusional to claim the government of Israel commits acts of terrorism. Israel attacks to defend against real and present danger and goes to great length to avoid civilian deaths. Gazans attack civilians directly as their goal. They laugh about it. They brag about it. They record it. They do it specifically to induce terror.
I wish you all the best. I won't be checking back this page, as I have already given plenty of time for people to offer an open dialogue that is respectful, but I hope seeds have been planted. Shalom.
1. Don’t shy away from an argument. In the Jewish tradition, arguments are good and healthy. A productive society is fueled by vigorous debate, so don’t shy away from getting into one. There are more productive ways than others to argue, but argument itself is a time-tested Jewish tradition, and it has been valued and practiced for centuries by Jewish rabbis, scholars, and lay people alike.
2. Examine every angle. Jews believe that you can’t find the truth until you examine every angle and exhaust every argument. We even have a word for it, Machloket, which is a dispute between two differing opinions on a legal interpretation of the Torah.
3. Don’t be afraid to be wrong. Enter a debate armed with facts and your passionate perspective. Argue your point of view, but be open to considering the alternative. Dissent doesn’t require arriving at a conclusion, and being proven wrong doesn’t reflect badly on you.
4. Rehash and reevaluate. The Talmud is a sacred book of arguments, which contains thousands upon thousands of differing commentaries on the Torah and how its commandments should be carried out. Throughout history, rabbis have added to the Talmud, even rehashing the value and interpretation of earlier discussions, and reevaluating them in a modern context.
5. Value diversity of opinion. Jewish people consider diversity of opinion a strength. Our tradition dates back thousands of years and it has changed with the times. Movements such as Reform and Conservative Judaism have arisen from a modern application of sacred texts.
6. Be informed. The art of debate and dissent requires a strong base of knowledge. You must be informed in order to join the fray and be able to stand up in a rigorous debate with those who disagree. That includes being well-versed on the opposing perspective.
7. Talk to each other, not at each other. Listen as much as you speak. In Judaism, debate is all about arriving at the (or a) truth. If we simply talk at each other or talk only in order to delegitimize the other, we won’t arrive at any truth. Even if at the end you don’t agree, someone with an opposing view often has something to teach you, but only if you’re open to the lesson.
8. Don’t belabor your point. Jewish people have a great tradition of rest. Shabbat, or the Sabbath, observed Friday night into Saturday, is a weekly ritual where Jews are asked (even required) to stop, reflect, and just be. You don’t have to reach a consensus at the end of every discussion. Know when to walk away and give the argument a rest.
9. Respect your opponent. While debate is a time-tested Jewish tradition, it is done with respect and civility. The idea is to find common ground where possible; that’s only done with compassion and consideration.
If I thought what you thought I might feel the same about what you think about me. However, using the word delusional is not conducive to mutual understanding. It's a form of gaslighting and hate toward a person with an opinion that differs from yours, because it disqualifies them from having that opinion and without any basis other than that you have arbitrarily decided they are so wrong they should be dismissed as delusional. I have invited anyone who wishes to present to me the facts as they understand them, with sources to the contrary. Not because I want to win an argument but because we have to understand that good people often see things very differently, but if we can at least realize that people's conclusions are understandable if we get inside there shoes, maybe we can stop dehumanizing anyone and build peace. War is delusional because it is based on the false premise that painting the "other" in black and white, and being willing to kill regular people (whether soldiers or civilians) will do more than advance the chess game of people who manipulate the game. They'll hang a rook or sacrifice a knight. The queen is forced to defend the king. But the king is always protected. I want to play the game of life where all people flourish and that can only happen if we seek to understand different perspectives and have more compassion even if we totally have strong, opposite feelings and beliefs. People may be deluded, or we may think they are deluded but the assumption is often without basis (you have not presented your case, nor have you heard why I believe what I believe,) in deeply wrong. Instead, together we can help one another grow toward better understanding if we stop the name calling or the implied name calling and dismissing of dissent in such disrespectful way. Blessings and peace to you.
Hi there. I actually was quite critical of the metoo movement for several reasons and I have a nuanced view of the gender issues as well. We need to be able to have conversations without insulting each other if we are to create a liveable world where all are respected, safe, free, whole and able to be themselves without pressure, coercion, abuse or rape. My criticisms of the metoo movement included its unequal application to both political parties and its failure to address child rape, either in terms of incest or in terms of elite child trafficking and blackmail. My criticism of the gender issue is that while I fully support non-binary people, there is a lack of integrity in ensuring that root causes are addressed and that there is no abuse, coercion or secrecy, before or after someone undergoes anything related to their gender.
I would like to point out that "Not so young anymore" has expressed quit a bit of actual hate toward me on this forum. I have read on this topic but I am always open to learning more. That's why I invited someone to share some information, with sources that I might not have come across.
I basically think that you know so little about this topic like so many people but feel so free to share... it’s not just you its many who lack basic historical facts but when it comes to Jews and Israel the gloves are off
But the funny thing is I am open to learning more but you tell me I shouldn't ask for sources. if your goal is to help people better understand, how is your approach helping?
My approach is my opinion. If there were a world conflict that I knew little about, I would learn about it off line and keep my uninformed opinions to myself. Thats just me. I find that when it comes to Israel and Jews people have so many opinions based on nothing. But Assad can kill 1/2 million people and they don’t blink. Or civil war can range in Congo but no one cares. But Jews and Israel are always in the line of fire.
One thing she could have done to get that point across (if that’s what she meant) would have been to simply say that and not add all the other stuff that I was disagreeing with. Unfortunately she said all the other things so I had to assume she meant them as well.
Here's the problem: It is NOT antisemitic to criticize the Israeli government. Hell, it's not even antisemitic to say that you don't support Israel as a legitimate nation. But the rhetoric being used far and wide to denounce Israel IS antisemitic and blatantly ahistorical. Israel is not a nation of white European colonizers. It is a nation of refugees fleeing death camps and mass extermination AND it is a nation of refugees FROM THE MIDDLE EAST fleeing pogroms in places like Iraq, Yemen, Algeria (the list goes on) that began well before the partition. Similarly, while one can call this war inhumane, brutal, and even illegal, calling it "genocide" is both inaccurate and inflammatory. Will these authors use these terms or narratives? The odds are good, just as is the likelihood of some dim bulb invoking "from the river to the sea." To ask a Jew to financially support these narratives and this language is unacceptable.
My understanding that is a lot of white evangelicals mingling with other white Europeans were deeply behind the creation of Israel and that many Jews originally objected to it, and that its creation originally was only supported so long as it did not cause exactly what it has caused to the Palestinians. Show me where I'm wrong. I love to be wrong! <3
Sorry to be late replying, but I hope this reaches you!
1. Many Jews already lived in the Middle East and the area that would be partitioned as Israel-Palestine and had for hundreds of years. You can see proof of this in the pogroms that occurred in places like Iraq, Yemen, Syria and yes in places like Hebron, Jaffa, and even Gaza (1929 pogrom, synagogue that dates back to the 6th century).
2. Yes, there was support for a Jewish homeland among Christian Zionists for a variety of reasons, but these British Christian Zionists didn't do much to back the cause. In fact, they barred entry to the protectorate when Jews tried to flee there during WWII. And yes, they did train Israeli soldiers but they trained Arab soldiers too.
3. Sure, there were plenty of people who opposed the creation of Israel, predominantly Arabs who had been murdering Jews within their own countries for years (again, see Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, the list goes on). It was inevitable that both Jews and Palestinians would be displaced in the partition but let's be very clear: hundreds of thousands of Arabs chose to live peacefully within the new borders of Israel. They now number 2 MILLION and enjoy full citizenship. They serve in the Knesset and on the supreme court.
4. The naqba was not the result of the partition. It was the result of 5 Arab nations declaring war on Israel on the date of its founding. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced—yes, often, violently—in the war that followed. SO WERE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS. Absolutely no one has advocated for the return of their property or land.
5. I will not pretend that racism doesn't exist in Israel. It does. I will not pretend that Israel or the IDF always act justly or humanely. They don't. As I said, oppose the war, oppose Israel if you like, but please don't rewrite history for the sake of a white/brown oppressor/oppressed narrative that denies the history of the region or the ethnic makeup of Israel.
Hey thanks so much for sharing your perspective! It does help round things out for me. Can you provide some sources? I would like to check into some of these things myself. Above all, I would like the people of the world to remember we are all connected - we can find ways to love and live together in peace, and although we may not always things eye to eye, it is usually a small number of people pulling the puppet strings and they call it this or that righteous cause the phony leaders are playing chess with human lives and souls.
Why will Jews fleeing death all across the Middle East and North Africa object to a home "originally"? You are not half-Jewish nor do you know your history.
If someone feels comfortable asserting that I am not half Jewish, how is that different than denying the holocaust? If someone assumes I do not know my history when I have openly offered an invitation to prove me wrong, yet offers no sources to disconfirm that which I understand to be true, that is what I am talking about in terms of people who experience such cognitive dissonance with divergent views that they cannot be open to a potential truth that they have not encountered. Most of my family on my Jewish side died in the holocaust. Of course they would want a place to be safe. The reasons many Jews did not approve of the creation of Israel if it was on the basis of oppressing another people are that Jewish people, unless otherwise conditioned by the likes of people like Lesley Wexner, are ethical, moral, compassionate, just. The creation of Israel was not done in an ethical, just, moral or compassionate way. If it is meant to belong to the Jewish people by prophecy, it seems unlikely God would approve of the manner in which it was done.
Her concern was about antisemitic statements. You don't seem concerned about that.
Hamas says they have no interest protecting Palestinian people, that's not their job. They say that they will massacre Jews over and over until they destroy Israel. What should Israel do?
Top Hamas official declares group is not responsible for defending Gazan civilians
Okay fine you got me: I don’t think Hamas should have a table at the National Book Awards. Good thing literally no one thinks they should so it’s not going to happen!
I mean, for the record, I have locked horns (((horns))) with people online who think Hamas are freedom fighters and who think Hamas have the best interests of Gazans at heart. It's crazy-making. And I do think implementing some kind of parameters or guidelines for political speech at this event would be reasonable. Not to censor speech but to ensure the event is inclusive.
Alison I hear what you are saying! I just find this preemptive action against the National Book Foundation, which does not make a habit of promoting or platforming hate speech, to be a goofy choice. The idea that someone would criticize Israel or express solidarity with the Palestinian people isn’t antisemitic, and pulling support over that possibility is certainly Zibby’s right but doesn’t do anything to help Jews or books (or the people of Gaza). Certainly if these critiques are voiced in a way that’s hurtful to the Jewish people, that is important to call out. But this feels like an attempt to narrowly define which kinds of political views are acceptable and which are not.
Hamas may appeal to the heart of those who long for freedom or at least believe in it, but they are a terrorist group, originally propped up by Netanyahu and funded by lots of folks who may indeed have Nazi agendas. But Hamas is not Gaza anymore than Israel is Netanyahu or Science is Fauci or the United States is Biden or Mcdonalds is food.
Alicia, you say a lot of things that are flat out non factual lies that have been proven to be propaganda by Iran and their terror proxies. I think you should be careful to substantiate your claims with data that has been fact checked. Much if your ideology is rooted in Hamas ideology…. I’m not sure you realize this.
I deeply respect the importance of sources when stating facts as opposed to personal insights and intuitions. A great thing to do is fact check the fact checkers - as you say, often there are terror proxies - and not just on one side. The news is often regulated by people with ties to various interests and agendas, so it's always good to look up their boards of directors. What agendas to particular fact checkers have? Who funds and decision-makes?
I often feel so frustrated when it seems like everyone thinks their leaders are the righteous ones. Again, as always we must separate the people from those who are indoctrinating them, and it's not always easy because indoctrinated people will very likely be used as puppets by those who indoctrinate.
This is a telling comment. Gondelman takes issue with Zibby for pulling out of an event and ends his long comment by warning: “I will be replying to any comments I don't like with sarcasm and insults.” So much for his belief in “expanding one's radius of compassion” or showing “solidarity for members of the literary (and human) community.” Maybe Gondelman’s threat to react to anyone who has a reply that he doesn’t like with “sarcasm and insults” illustrates the kind of bullying and totally unsympathetic discourse that makes Zibby afraid to go to the awards.
It’s telling that your quibble with my comment is that I might be rude in the future someday. Damn. I guess I shouldn’t have justified Zibby’s fear by threatening to use sarcasm, which is prohibited by the Geneva convention.
On no now you're using sarcasm! It's spreading! You've completely lost the ability to address any substantive critique because I used gentle irony! This truly is an atmosphere of bullying! (Bullying is when you comment on someone's blog that you disagree with them.)
Zibby's example of discourse that makes her afraid is:
"Unfortunately, in these highly charged days with hostages held and attacks happening, a line as simple as “Free Palestine,” or “from the river to the sea,” means more than just support of one side; it has come to mean the antagonization of an entire religion, not just a place. "
This is interesting. I have to say I agree insulting back is not helpful, nor my style, and I did not resonate with that bit from Josh. At the same time, I have experienced so much gaslighting, word-twisting and outright psyops type stuff for speaking things that are different from what what others would like me to say, that I get how sarcasm could be a recourse to attack, much as sattire always has been for those who speak truth yet have little other power. The inability of people with good hearts to trust each other is a big problem. It's so hard because we all take our views so seriously but many of them are not truly our own and we often don't know it. If those who control the strings were unstringed, I believe humanity could, with some time to recover from collective PTSD solve its problems and find all way win solutions that respect everyone.
What a fantasy of self-hatred! Anti-Zionism is the most essential anti-Semitism of all. "From the river to the sea.." includes you. Wake up and smell the roses.
Oh geez, you must have posted this without reading any news for the past two months, including how no one said anything antisemitic at the National Book Awards. Embarrassing for you! You can still delete your comment before too many people see it though!
You have no idea what these authors were going to say but you equated anti-ethnic cleansing/genocide and pro-Palestinian sentiments to antisemitism unprovoked. Jewish populations here are marching all over the country for Palestine. Are they antisemitic? Israel govt doesn’t represent all of Israel. They are currently jailing and beating their own citizens for posting on social media, protesting and speaking out against Bibi and his complicit administration officials. Are those Israelis antisemitic? What you did was your choice but it was also cowardice. You will come to see you were on the wrong side of this. The evidence is already all around you.
That you can say this while also using terms like "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" proves her point. Gaza's population has grown and grown since the partition. If you are looking to exterminate a people, you don't try to get Egypt to give hundreds of thousands of them sanctuary. Hate the war. Denounce the bombing. But stop using inaccurate terms that are nothing but propaganda.
Noted scholars educated on ethnic cleansing and genocide, some of them that have survived them and some that are Jewish living in Israel, have said this is a clear case especially with intent being so overt as it comes directly from the the mouths of Israeli government officials including Netanyahu. The only one pushing propaganda here is you and it’s disgusting.
Netanyahu and many of his cronies are murderous schmucks. But what they say and the actual policies enacted are different things. Similarly other "noted scholars" and survivors disagree with your take and the numbers bear that out. I am not saying the loss of life is acceptable but it is not uniquely barbaric and it is not genocide. If Israel was truly bombing indiscriminately then the casualty numbers would be radically higher and if they were seeking "ethnic cleansing," what of the Arabs and Christians within their own borders? Consider that Assad murdered 500,000 Syrians and the world uproar was virtually nil. Consider what is happening in Congo, Nigeria, Armenia and how little attention is being paid. Why? Because the conflict in Gaza is being covered on social media in real time and war is brutal, bloody, and vile.
I note you didn't address any of my other points. You can call me disgusting all you like but language matters and your foaming rage is palpable.
You can disagree and 'both sides the argument concerning the scholars and survivors but I would implore you to look further into who they are and what motives you may be missing. If you're going to talk about "numbers bearing out" cite them. My guess is they don't exist. "Loss of life", and "not uniquely barbaric" are just another way for you to rationalize genocide which is pretty gross and very telling. It is exactly what is happening regardless of your softening language. People much smarter than you have already laid out the case for it including members of the Israeli community. The fact you think they're not bombing indiscriminately while you see major parts of Gaza completely flattened for miles and ignore all the videos of women, children, and young men blown to pieces, suffocated under rubble, sniped, starved to death, and on and on to the tune of at least 11,000 tells me and everyone here that you don't place any value to Palestinian lives and are here to spread lies and propaganda. Absolutely vile.
You can discuss other parts of the world as if this is the only place people bring attention to atrocities but you can't take back your display of utter disregard for Palestinian lives. You've lost your humanity and it shows based on your statements. It is not a war when one side is a nuclear power with the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus on the planet and a powerful military and the only resistance shown is men dressed in plain clothes paragliding and driving in packed trucks with rifles conveniently untouched for 6 hours as they murdered innocent civilians and IDF soldiers. Netanyahu had been supporting Hamas for years and publications in Israel have reported that.
I didn't address your point because you called apartheid a "partition" which is intentional and ridiculous considering human rights organizations and legal experts have classified it as such under international law. Yes, I'm angry but that doesn't make me wrong, that just shows that I care about people dying and you, not so much.
Your response showed amazing courage and conscience. I often review books on Amazon and Facebook and now will make a point of supporting books from Zibby media.
Being Pro-Palestine is not antisemitic, being anti-Zionist is not antisemitic (just look at Jewish Voice for Peace). Supporting free speech except when it makes you, a rich and powerful woman, uncomfortable, is moral pornography. Do better.
Being critical of the Israeli government is not antisemitism. I am. But being opposed to the self determination of the Jewish people in their ancestral/indigenous homeland and that it has no right to exist along with it half of the world’s Jewish population (anti-Zionist) is absolutely antisemitism because it is almost exclusively used to erase Jewish history and identity.
The term Anti-Zionism in recent years has in and of itself has become a racial slur used against Jews, but of course, Jews are the one minority group that are not allowed to determine what racism toward them looks like.
You forget, or just unwilling to acknowledge, that Israel was previously Palestine, a homeland also claimed by Palestinians—700,000—who were driven from their land to a small sliver for generations of hopeless existence. Reminds me of the history of the American Indian.
Seems like you’re very much cherry picking your history. The term Palestinian didn’t even exist until the 1960s. Before that it was just Jews and Arabs (both Christian and Muslim). When it was the British Mandate of Palestine the British ruled, before that the Ottoman Empire, before that :
Ayyubid dynasty
Kingdom of Jerusalem
Seljuk Empire
Abbasid Caliphate
Umayyad Caliphate
Rashidun Caliphate
Eastern Roman Empire
Roman Empire
Hasmonean kingdom
Seleucid Empire
Alexander the Great
Achaemenid Empire
Neo-Babylonian Empire
Neo-Assyrian Empire
Kingdoms of Israel and Judaea
All of which included Jews. There has always been a Jewish presence in what is now called Israel but has been called many many things over the years.
I believe the Nakba you’re referring to is when the surrounding Arab countries declared war on Israel and the Arab communities left thinking they would move back once the Jews had been exterminated, only they weren’t, and after which the Jews from all the surrounding counties where ethnically cleansed TO Israel, their belongings and homes taken by the ruling powers that henceforth made their counties Judenfrei. Which is why the vast majority of Jews in Israel are of middle eastern decent.
Now I don’t think that only Jews have claim to the land, but I do believe that they’re the only ones who have ever attempted to make peace. They didn’t start this war, they haven’t started any of the wars in the region, but they also haven’t backed down and just let their people be slaughtered.
Thank you for the list. Possibly I am an idiot for thinking that the only way out of this is for all who have some claim to the land to somehow find a way to work together, complications and history and grievances notwithstanding. Otherwise, mutual destruction.
It must be about land to some degree. But yes, about other things. I assume you are thinking a two-state solution could never work? If so, any other ideas? (Before I resign myself to things as they are today.)
Pamela, the naqba was not the result of the partition. It was the result of multiple Arab nations declaring war on the newly founded Israel with the goal of wiping it out and murdering its Jewish inhabitants. Yes, some Palestinians were violently displaced. So were many Jews. "But they were colonizers!" No, they weren't. There were Jews living in the protectorate who experienced pogroms at the hands of their Arab neighbors (in Jaffa, Hebron, etc) throughout the 1920s. Gaza was home to a community of Jews that was WIPED OUT in 1929. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were displaced from places like Iraq and Yemen in 1948 (and before). No one has ever called for the return of their homes, their land, their belongings. Israel is not blameless, but this one sided vision of oppressor/oppressed is absolute nonsense.
Also if you're not ready to give back Manhattan, Los Angeles, Toronto, or risk attacks by terrorists (sorry, freedom fighters), maybe don't draw comparisons to indigenous folks in North America.
Yeah, I knew you were a Zionist propagandist using cherry picked and twisted events from the past to explain away a genocide. I just had to scroll further to read your other posts. All your posts are full of half-truths, complete lies, logical fallacies and pro-colonialism garbage. You're basically using the "it's complicated" tactic when the situation is clear as day. You truly are gross.
You are a Jew hating person. Your moral preening is disgusting. You do better. You think about what it means to be Jewish and see your idiotic judgment.
It takes courage to stand by your principles, no matter the prospective backlash, and I hope you'll get the support you need after doing this.
I'm just one person but my admiration grows because of your stance here. I understand the conflicted feelings. We all have our own ideas on what constitutes free speech and how we, as writers, should go about protecting it. But as you say, hate speech can't be thrown about freely. Not in a society that struggles to stay on the right side of democracy, equity, and fair play.
Hang in there, Zibby. And thank you for being on the front lines, doing battle with giants. Prejudice has no place in any of our hearts and if we don't speak out, who will?
Based on what it says above, it appears she pulled her funding because the NBF refused to give assurances that if the speeches devolved into outright hate speech there would be no intervention. Since no one knows what’s going to be said, it seems like an easy call for the NBF to say if someone gets on stage and says “ Hitler was right” they might be willing to turn the mic off.
You are absolutely right and did the right thing. Freedom of speech is one thing but antisemitism and hate speech is not a part of that. It saddens me that NBF wouldn't stand up for what is right, but I'm so proud of you for doing so.
Explain how it isn’t. It requires a false narrative ascribing evil to the victims of relentless hateful attacks and ascribes victimhood to the unrelenting bloodthirsty maniacs who are hellbent on killing Jews. It reverses cause and effect: Jews were legally given land and Palestinians refused all offers of a share of land insisting on having it all. Then began 75 years of murdering Jews making them gazans unacceptable neighbors not only for Israel -but every other country in the area. They launched thousands of missiles overwhelming Israel’s “dome” and Israel is supposed to leave that stuff intact??? The maniacs have rocket launchers in the schools, tunnels under their hospitals. Israel is supposed to just let them keep that? It is the most irrationally humane thing in history that Israel provided more than a week for civilians to evacuate, and even had to get Hamas out of the way so citizens could flee before Israel began its just attack in earnest. Name any other time or place where a nation behaved that way to an active aggressor after yet another viscious attack on civilians. Israel isn’t targeting civilians. Israel is targeting the rocket launchers, tunnels, and murderers that Hamas tries to shield with civilians.
Your bio sums it up perfectly. All you do is follow Libs of TikTok and troll people. One lame ass existence. Get out of that basement in St. Petersburg and lay off the vodka. Your mother is highly disappointed. She deserves better.
No. First, the classic agitprop bullshit demand of “prove this negative”....You are confusing Palestinians with Hamas. Just like there is a difference between Israel, it’s citizens and the Israeli government. The latter is one of the largest terrorist organizations on earth. One more disingenuous nonsensical gibberish and you are fodder for the block cannons.
I’m so sorry to see this. I’m encouraged that there are brave and courageous voices like yours in media calling out hypocrisy and wish honestly there were more people than Josh Gad, Sarah Silverman and Amy Schumer actively trying to right wrongs here. How can we condone this type of behavior? We have to look inside ourselves and decide when enough is enough. This is a personal choice and I get it but this is for the collective survival of the Jewish people. Why can’t people be compelled to stand against hateful actions
You ask that last question after saying Silverman (wore blackface and has uttered vile racist jokes) and Silverman (racist posts about Palestinians) are trying to right wrongs. Why can’t people be compelled to stand against hateful actions indeed.
Glad to see your comment because scrolling through these I’m feeling quite disheartened (of course not at all surprised!). I agree we need more voices.
Thank you Zibby for demonstrating the moral fiber that the leadership in publishing, universities, and the literary community should be showing in the face of the oldest form of hatred.
Hi everyone! As a Jewish person, I abhor antisemitism in all its forms. Also (still) as a Jewish person, I find Israel's (U.S.-funded) bombing of Gaza to be a horror. There is nothing antisemitic about voicing that criticism. In fact, Jews across the world have been demonstrating in solidarity with the Palestinian people for the past month. This is not an endorsement of Hamas nor is it a blind eye turned towards antisemitic violence. It is deeply in keeping with Jewish values, and I find it extremely moving. It is possible, and righteous, to want peace for Jews and Palestinians. Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing government is doing nothing to bring about this peace, and instead is choosing to add recklessly to an escalating death toll (not to mention refusing opportunities to secure the safe return of hostages). It is a mitzvah, in my opinion, to expand one's radius of compassion even in the face of fear and grief. Pulling support from this event over a pro-Palestinian sentiment under the presumption that it would be antisemitic by default does not seem to me like an act of heroism. It feels like a withdrawing of solidarity from members of the literary (and human) community who are also experiencing real pain. To anyone who read this far, I appreciate you for hearing me out. That said, I don't have any interest in arguing here, so I will be replying to any comments I don't like with sarcasm and insults. It will not be productive, and it will ruin both of our days. Thanks again for your time.
Thank you so much for your heart Josh! As a half Jewish woman, I recognize the sacredness of each member of our human family and the rampant corruption in every government. To Zibby, I deeply abhor antisemitism and have experienced plenty of it online. Yet Israel's founding is deeply tied up with atrocities, as has been its expansion, long before this latest attack. There are forces that use horrors and their divisions to sweep in with an answer that sanitizes power usurpation. Israel has often done things that run counter to the best interest of Jewish people. All governments do. "in this case of Israel and the Jewish people" - this sentence is a problem. To condemn antisemitism is so important. Yet the conflation of Israel's government with the Jewish people totally off base! To call people self-hating Jews for questioning Israel is true gaslighting. I call for its end NOW! I support Jewish people in feeling loved, safe and free. I support the same for all. People are only vulnerable to being recruited as terrorists when their human rights, there basic needs are only met by terrorist groups. Om Mani Padme Hum. Shalom. Salaam. Peace. A thousand blessings for every terrorized heart. May we see through the bullshit and recognize that ending antisemitism will be forwarded, not hindered by supporting Palestinian freedom and respect for inalienable rights as sacred vessels of consciousness in form, the vibrant expression of One Heart. From the No-Thing let us birth sovereign solutions that reflect healing for all, and lead to joy, peace and abundance for our whole human family.
This was so beautiful and thoughtful! Thank you for sharing it!
Thank you Josh!
https://substack.com/inbox/post/138193279
💛💛💛
<3! Love
You take a deliberate blind eye to antisemitism. You are disgusting
As a Jew I recognize that He's all over the world are safer because Israel exists.
I am not sure what you are trying to say...who is the He's - did you mean Jews? I understand the love of Israel and the feeling of safety that many Jews derive from it but I do not believe oppressing others can ever lead to peace for the oppressors, even if the oppressors are themselves seeking safety from their own oppression. Israel has been involved in many blackmail/surveillance operations that seek to control the world and that (seeking to control) is what all of us do when we are afraid of something bad happening again. So my belief is we need to go inside and heal ourselves.
You know what’s oppressive? Raping dead women. Burning people alive.
Thank you!! It seems like everyone is casually putting aside the violent raping of the three year old which the parents were forced to watch
Fellow Jew here. I'm with Josh.
Yes
I believe Zibby was asking for assurances that should there be antisemitic rhetoric ZBF had a plan in place to not allow their event to be a platform for hate. I do not think Zibby meant that an award recipient could not express concern for Palestinians civilians in Gaza. Those are two veey different things.
"A platform for hate" is often used to silence dissent - in this case political dissent. If someone were to say something directly antisemitic of course any decent person would agree that they should not be re-invited to the table. However, to criticize Israel has been inappropriate instilled in the collective as equivalent to being anti-semitic. Criticizing hamas is not anti-muslim or anti-arabic. It is criticizing the actions of a group that does terrible things. Criticizing a formal government that engages in consistent acts of terrorism is no different.
I understand the distinction and thank you for the response. However, the unbalanced condemnation of Israel versus other governments does have antisemitic roots and needs to be acknowledged. Also, to criticize Israel but not Hamas is a strange way to underscore the inhumane treatmen of the Palestinian people. While I do believe Netanyahu has been bad for Israel and for the plight of Palestinians and I disagree with his political agenda, I also believe the Palestinian people’s circumstances are much more a direct consequence of Hamas’ siphoning of aid and inhumane propaganda campaign keeping innocent civilians living in poverty as “martyrs” (although really sacrificial lambs) than the Israeli government. In other words, how can you point to the Palestinian people’s pain and not apply blame to Hamas but only apply blame to Israel? Doesn’t that ring false and raise questions about the person pointing the finger? It makes me think that person is antisemitic.
This is such a racist reply that implies the Palestinian people aren't suffering under an apartheid occupation with their ability to own, earn, and move about freely in their own neighborhoods and even houses at times. Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world and one of the most powerful militaries. This notion that they aren't to blame for the conditions of everything prior to the current ethnic cleansing and genocide that is currently happening mirrors how racists in this country always bring up black-on-black crime while ignoring systemic racism that to this day targets innocent members of the community while starving them of resources, education, healthy food, jobs, and on and on. Hamas was supported by Netanyahu and magically wasn't touched on Oct 7th for 6 hours and now he is flattening Gaza and mass amounts of human lives and giving contracts out to oil companies as the IDF takes control of land directly in front of the sea where they will drill. Publications from inside Israel have reported about his connections to Hamas. You haven't done enough reading on this situation and it shows. Please do better and stop using antisemitism to help cover for war crimes.
Facts that are inaccurate:
Netanyahu funds Hamas. ❌
Iran funds Hamas ✅
Israel is an apartment state ❌
Gaza has been governed by Hamas since 2006 ✅
Borders were closed on the Israeli side and EGYPTIAN side because Hamas was waging terror attacks son innocent civilians in both countries. ✅
Israel perpetrates ethnic cleansing and genocide ❌
The Palestinian population has more than doubled ✅
There is intersectionality between systemic racism marginalizing Black Americans and the Palestinian oppression ❌
Black Americans have been systemically discriminated against for centuries as is seen through systematic oppressive laws and barriers to entry like the GI Bill, Red Lining, Segregation, Gentrification/Imminent Domain and many more systemic inequities. Palestinian people living in Israel experience full equal rights and access and make up 20% of the Israeli citizenship. They hold high level positions and are almost 30% of the Knesset. Palestinians living in Gaza unfortunately are governed by Hamas who bully, torment and oppress their civilians in addition to brain wash them to hate Jews and Arabs living in Israel. Hamas uses Palestinian civilians living in Gaza as human shields and propaganda sacrificial lambs. Look at the wake of violence Hamas leaves behind and the tunnels they build under hospitals and schools and refugee camps. Look at the wealth of the Hamas leaders versus the poverty of the fighters and civilians risking their lives. The discrepancy is in front of your eyes. Do you really believe the group that drops flyers telling civilians before they bomb and pausing to let civilians through border crossings and providing humanitarian care to civilians is the problem? Not the group that beheaded babies and raped and tortured innocent civilians? Use your common sense. One group is backed by a democracy where people of different religions and backgrounds live in prosperity and peace while the other is run by a radical Islamic regime who beheads people who are different from them. One has a charter calling for the extinction of a people based on their religion and the other has a democratic mission. Really, use your head and wake up.
-I didn't say he funded them. I said he supported them. Nice try though.
-Israel has been designated an apartheid state by Human Rights Watch in 2021, Amnesty International in 2022, and Israel scholars and former Israeli officials have also started using this designation. In 2022, Michael Ben-Yair, a former attorney general of Israel, said that “it is with great sadness ... I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime.” Earlier this year, Tamir Pardo, a former head of Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, emphasized, too, that “there is an apartheid state here” featuring “two people [who] are judged under two legal systems. Again, nice try.
-The Palestinian population has doubled since Oct 7th? Interesting. I'd love to see that evidence. The more you know.
-Palestinians don't experience equal rights which is why they are designated by the groups and individuals smarter than you that I listed as living in an Israeli apartheid state.
-Yes, Hamas is in Gaza. If Hamas was at an elementary school with your loved one in it would you want the government to bomb it to get Hamas? I didn't think so. You're showing you don't care about Palestinians because they aren't the right melanin.
-They drop flyers and then bombs after they lie about the amount of time they gave and had no plan for the elderly, sick, disabled, and hospitalized. I'm in awe at your blatant rationalizing of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza. Whew.
-Israel itself admitted they lied about beheaded babies. That doesn't mean civilians weren't killed. It is an example of how Israeli govt lies to warrant their war crimes. No evidence was ever found. You gotta keep up with the latest propaganda that's been debunked Hillary.
-Islamophobia. Saw that one coming a mile away. One group is not backed by democracy they are literally jailing Israelis for posting and liking what they deam anti-zionism material. There are videos of some of the arrests and also videos of them torturing or murdering innocent farmers in North Gaza. All that coupled with their ethnic cleansing and genocide points to them being run by fascists.
Try more reading and watching of the Palestinian experience and members of that community unless, of course, you don't see them as equal. Also, try not to copy and paste from articles or social media posts you looked up real quick to try to sound well-read but didn't actually read. Or hide it better. It was too obvious.
Nice talk sleepy head.
Whoops! https://web.archive.org/web/20151207212228/http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847
Thank you for pointing this out, Hillary. Really important....I think Zibby was asking if the NBF had any plans in place in case the comments made were antisemitic in nature and whether NBF inadvertenly became a platform for hate by allowing a statement to made by the all the authors. It seems, based on the information that we have (which admitedly may not be complete) that NBF had no plans to place to do anything if their platform was used inappropriately. I think that is what Zibby was reacting to, and I support her in that. I'm all for authors having their say on all issues (it would be nice if their group comment tonight spoke to author silence on massacres in Syria or detentions in China) and even saying something at the ceremony about a ceasefire. But if hateful, antisemitic comments are also included, NBF should have a plan in place to respond. It seems they have come up, not surprisngly, empty. (Of course, had this been any other community besides Jews/Israelis, there would be a plan in place presumably. But that is a another topic.) I'm glad NBF is allowing authors to have their say. NBF had a chance to reassure one of its donors that it would be on top of things if the statement was inappropriate and it couldn't provide that assurance to the sponsor. The sponsor walked away. That's how these things are supposed to work. Sounds like NBF, a group I really respect, blew it. Be angry at them, not Zibby.
Perfectly stated, Hillary.
It’s delusional to claim the government of Israel commits acts of terrorism. Israel attacks to defend against real and present danger and goes to great length to avoid civilian deaths. Gazans attack civilians directly as their goal. They laugh about it. They brag about it. They record it. They do it specifically to induce terror.
I wish you all the best. I won't be checking back this page, as I have already given plenty of time for people to offer an open dialogue that is respectful, but I hope seeds have been planted. Shalom.
This is from Jewish Federation Cincinnati:
1. Don’t shy away from an argument. In the Jewish tradition, arguments are good and healthy. A productive society is fueled by vigorous debate, so don’t shy away from getting into one. There are more productive ways than others to argue, but argument itself is a time-tested Jewish tradition, and it has been valued and practiced for centuries by Jewish rabbis, scholars, and lay people alike.
2. Examine every angle. Jews believe that you can’t find the truth until you examine every angle and exhaust every argument. We even have a word for it, Machloket, which is a dispute between two differing opinions on a legal interpretation of the Torah.
3. Don’t be afraid to be wrong. Enter a debate armed with facts and your passionate perspective. Argue your point of view, but be open to considering the alternative. Dissent doesn’t require arriving at a conclusion, and being proven wrong doesn’t reflect badly on you.
4. Rehash and reevaluate. The Talmud is a sacred book of arguments, which contains thousands upon thousands of differing commentaries on the Torah and how its commandments should be carried out. Throughout history, rabbis have added to the Talmud, even rehashing the value and interpretation of earlier discussions, and reevaluating them in a modern context.
5. Value diversity of opinion. Jewish people consider diversity of opinion a strength. Our tradition dates back thousands of years and it has changed with the times. Movements such as Reform and Conservative Judaism have arisen from a modern application of sacred texts.
6. Be informed. The art of debate and dissent requires a strong base of knowledge. You must be informed in order to join the fray and be able to stand up in a rigorous debate with those who disagree. That includes being well-versed on the opposing perspective.
7. Talk to each other, not at each other. Listen as much as you speak. In Judaism, debate is all about arriving at the (or a) truth. If we simply talk at each other or talk only in order to delegitimize the other, we won’t arrive at any truth. Even if at the end you don’t agree, someone with an opposing view often has something to teach you, but only if you’re open to the lesson.
8. Don’t belabor your point. Jewish people have a great tradition of rest. Shabbat, or the Sabbath, observed Friday night into Saturday, is a weekly ritual where Jews are asked (even required) to stop, reflect, and just be. You don’t have to reach a consensus at the end of every discussion. Know when to walk away and give the argument a rest.
9. Respect your opponent. While debate is a time-tested Jewish tradition, it is done with respect and civility. The idea is to find common ground where possible; that’s only done with compassion and consideration.
Danielle V. Minson CEO
Raising the Bar
Ari (Ballaban) Jun JCRC Director
In Conversation
David Harris Chief Development Officer
Your Impact
Israeli Chronicles Connecting Israel & Cincinnati
If I thought what you thought I might feel the same about what you think about me. However, using the word delusional is not conducive to mutual understanding. It's a form of gaslighting and hate toward a person with an opinion that differs from yours, because it disqualifies them from having that opinion and without any basis other than that you have arbitrarily decided they are so wrong they should be dismissed as delusional. I have invited anyone who wishes to present to me the facts as they understand them, with sources to the contrary. Not because I want to win an argument but because we have to understand that good people often see things very differently, but if we can at least realize that people's conclusions are understandable if we get inside there shoes, maybe we can stop dehumanizing anyone and build peace. War is delusional because it is based on the false premise that painting the "other" in black and white, and being willing to kill regular people (whether soldiers or civilians) will do more than advance the chess game of people who manipulate the game. They'll hang a rook or sacrifice a knight. The queen is forced to defend the king. But the king is always protected. I want to play the game of life where all people flourish and that can only happen if we seek to understand different perspectives and have more compassion even if we totally have strong, opposite feelings and beliefs. People may be deluded, or we may think they are deluded but the assumption is often without basis (you have not presented your case, nor have you heard why I believe what I believe,) in deeply wrong. Instead, together we can help one another grow toward better understanding if we stop the name calling or the implied name calling and dismissing of dissent in such disrespectful way. Blessings and peace to you.
I bet if someone misgendered someone else you’d be all kind of concerned. I bet you loved MeToo. But Jewish lives clearly don’t matter for you.
Hi there. I actually was quite critical of the metoo movement for several reasons and I have a nuanced view of the gender issues as well. We need to be able to have conversations without insulting each other if we are to create a liveable world where all are respected, safe, free, whole and able to be themselves without pressure, coercion, abuse or rape. My criticisms of the metoo movement included its unequal application to both political parties and its failure to address child rape, either in terms of incest or in terms of elite child trafficking and blackmail. My criticism of the gender issue is that while I fully support non-binary people, there is a lack of integrity in ensuring that root causes are addressed and that there is no abuse, coercion or secrecy, before or after someone undergoes anything related to their gender.
I would like to point out that "Not so young anymore" has expressed quit a bit of actual hate toward me on this forum. I have read on this topic but I am always open to learning more. That's why I invited someone to share some information, with sources that I might not have come across.
I basically think that you know so little about this topic like so many people but feel so free to share... it’s not just you its many who lack basic historical facts but when it comes to Jews and Israel the gloves are off
But the funny thing is I am open to learning more but you tell me I shouldn't ask for sources. if your goal is to help people better understand, how is your approach helping?
My approach is my opinion. If there were a world conflict that I knew little about, I would learn about it off line and keep my uninformed opinions to myself. Thats just me. I find that when it comes to Israel and Jews people have so many opinions based on nothing. But Assad can kill 1/2 million people and they don’t blink. Or civil war can range in Congo but no one cares. But Jews and Israel are always in the line of fire.
One thing she could have done to get that point across (if that’s what she meant) would have been to simply say that and not add all the other stuff that I was disagreeing with. Unfortunately she said all the other things so I had to assume she meant them as well.
Here's the problem: It is NOT antisemitic to criticize the Israeli government. Hell, it's not even antisemitic to say that you don't support Israel as a legitimate nation. But the rhetoric being used far and wide to denounce Israel IS antisemitic and blatantly ahistorical. Israel is not a nation of white European colonizers. It is a nation of refugees fleeing death camps and mass extermination AND it is a nation of refugees FROM THE MIDDLE EAST fleeing pogroms in places like Iraq, Yemen, Algeria (the list goes on) that began well before the partition. Similarly, while one can call this war inhumane, brutal, and even illegal, calling it "genocide" is both inaccurate and inflammatory. Will these authors use these terms or narratives? The odds are good, just as is the likelihood of some dim bulb invoking "from the river to the sea." To ask a Jew to financially support these narratives and this language is unacceptable.
My understanding that is a lot of white evangelicals mingling with other white Europeans were deeply behind the creation of Israel and that many Jews originally objected to it, and that its creation originally was only supported so long as it did not cause exactly what it has caused to the Palestinians. Show me where I'm wrong. I love to be wrong! <3
Sorry to be late replying, but I hope this reaches you!
1. Many Jews already lived in the Middle East and the area that would be partitioned as Israel-Palestine and had for hundreds of years. You can see proof of this in the pogroms that occurred in places like Iraq, Yemen, Syria and yes in places like Hebron, Jaffa, and even Gaza (1929 pogrom, synagogue that dates back to the 6th century).
2. Yes, there was support for a Jewish homeland among Christian Zionists for a variety of reasons, but these British Christian Zionists didn't do much to back the cause. In fact, they barred entry to the protectorate when Jews tried to flee there during WWII. And yes, they did train Israeli soldiers but they trained Arab soldiers too.
3. Sure, there were plenty of people who opposed the creation of Israel, predominantly Arabs who had been murdering Jews within their own countries for years (again, see Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, the list goes on). It was inevitable that both Jews and Palestinians would be displaced in the partition but let's be very clear: hundreds of thousands of Arabs chose to live peacefully within the new borders of Israel. They now number 2 MILLION and enjoy full citizenship. They serve in the Knesset and on the supreme court.
4. The naqba was not the result of the partition. It was the result of 5 Arab nations declaring war on Israel on the date of its founding. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced—yes, often, violently—in the war that followed. SO WERE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS. Absolutely no one has advocated for the return of their property or land.
5. I will not pretend that racism doesn't exist in Israel. It does. I will not pretend that Israel or the IDF always act justly or humanely. They don't. As I said, oppose the war, oppose Israel if you like, but please don't rewrite history for the sake of a white/brown oppressor/oppressed narrative that denies the history of the region or the ethnic makeup of Israel.
Hope this helps a bit :)
Hey thanks so much for sharing your perspective! It does help round things out for me. Can you provide some sources? I would like to check into some of these things myself. Above all, I would like the people of the world to remember we are all connected - we can find ways to love and live together in peace, and although we may not always things eye to eye, it is usually a small number of people pulling the puppet strings and they call it this or that righteous cause the phony leaders are playing chess with human lives and souls.
If you need sources you shouldn’t be posting your precious opinion. Read first. You are an ignorant person. Why do you feel so free to hate Israel ?
Why will Jews fleeing death all across the Middle East and North Africa object to a home "originally"? You are not half-Jewish nor do you know your history.
Why don’t you just shut up and read a book
If someone feels comfortable asserting that I am not half Jewish, how is that different than denying the holocaust? If someone assumes I do not know my history when I have openly offered an invitation to prove me wrong, yet offers no sources to disconfirm that which I understand to be true, that is what I am talking about in terms of people who experience such cognitive dissonance with divergent views that they cannot be open to a potential truth that they have not encountered. Most of my family on my Jewish side died in the holocaust. Of course they would want a place to be safe. The reasons many Jews did not approve of the creation of Israel if it was on the basis of oppressing another people are that Jewish people, unless otherwise conditioned by the likes of people like Lesley Wexner, are ethical, moral, compassionate, just. The creation of Israel was not done in an ethical, just, moral or compassionate way. If it is meant to belong to the Jewish people by prophecy, it seems unlikely God would approve of the manner in which it was done.
If you don’t support Israel as a ‘legit nation’ you are deeply antisemitic.
This is simply not true. This sentiment is no better than a MAGA nationalist calling someone "un-American" for not going along with their BS.
True.
Her concern was about antisemitic statements. You don't seem concerned about that.
Hamas says they have no interest protecting Palestinian people, that's not their job. They say that they will massacre Jews over and over until they destroy Israel. What should Israel do?
Top Hamas official declares group is not responsible for defending Gazan civilians
https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-hamas-official-claims-group-is-not-responsible-for-defending-gazan-civilians/
'We will repeat October 7 again and again' - Hamas official
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/we-must-teach-israel-a-lesson-hamas-official-warns-october-7-attack-will-be-repeated-again-and-again-101698898245182.html
Okay fine you got me: I don’t think Hamas should have a table at the National Book Awards. Good thing literally no one thinks they should so it’s not going to happen!
I mean, for the record, I have locked horns (((horns))) with people online who think Hamas are freedom fighters and who think Hamas have the best interests of Gazans at heart. It's crazy-making. And I do think implementing some kind of parameters or guidelines for political speech at this event would be reasonable. Not to censor speech but to ensure the event is inclusive.
Alison I hear what you are saying! I just find this preemptive action against the National Book Foundation, which does not make a habit of promoting or platforming hate speech, to be a goofy choice. The idea that someone would criticize Israel or express solidarity with the Palestinian people isn’t antisemitic, and pulling support over that possibility is certainly Zibby’s right but doesn’t do anything to help Jews or books (or the people of Gaza). Certainly if these critiques are voiced in a way that’s hurtful to the Jewish people, that is important to call out. But this feels like an attempt to narrowly define which kinds of political views are acceptable and which are not.
Exactly.
Perfectly stated, Alison.
Hamas may appeal to the heart of those who long for freedom or at least believe in it, but they are a terrorist group, originally propped up by Netanyahu and funded by lots of folks who may indeed have Nazi agendas. But Hamas is not Gaza anymore than Israel is Netanyahu or Science is Fauci or the United States is Biden or Mcdonalds is food.
Alicia, you say a lot of things that are flat out non factual lies that have been proven to be propaganda by Iran and their terror proxies. I think you should be careful to substantiate your claims with data that has been fact checked. Much if your ideology is rooted in Hamas ideology…. I’m not sure you realize this.
Hillary, you might take your own advice https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
I deeply respect the importance of sources when stating facts as opposed to personal insights and intuitions. A great thing to do is fact check the fact checkers - as you say, often there are terror proxies - and not just on one side. The news is often regulated by people with ties to various interests and agendas, so it's always good to look up their boards of directors. What agendas to particular fact checkers have? Who funds and decision-makes?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
I often feel so frustrated when it seems like everyone thinks their leaders are the righteous ones. Again, as always we must separate the people from those who are indoctrinating them, and it's not always easy because indoctrinated people will very likely be used as puppets by those who indoctrinate.
You'd be surprised, Josh.
I certainly fucking would.
Always appreciate your thoughts, Josh. And it was a balm to find them here.
Thanks so much, Meg!
This is a telling comment. Gondelman takes issue with Zibby for pulling out of an event and ends his long comment by warning: “I will be replying to any comments I don't like with sarcasm and insults.” So much for his belief in “expanding one's radius of compassion” or showing “solidarity for members of the literary (and human) community.” Maybe Gondelman’s threat to react to anyone who has a reply that he doesn’t like with “sarcasm and insults” illustrates the kind of bullying and totally unsympathetic discourse that makes Zibby afraid to go to the awards.
It’s telling that your quibble with my comment is that I might be rude in the future someday. Damn. I guess I shouldn’t have justified Zibby’s fear by threatening to use sarcasm, which is prohibited by the Geneva convention.
Sure, Josh. Keep proving my “quibble” by example.
On no now you're using sarcasm! It's spreading! You've completely lost the ability to address any substantive critique because I used gentle irony! This truly is an atmosphere of bullying! (Bullying is when you comment on someone's blog that you disagree with them.)
Zibby's example of discourse that makes her afraid is:
"Unfortunately, in these highly charged days with hostages held and attacks happening, a line as simple as “Free Palestine,” or “from the river to the sea,” means more than just support of one side; it has come to mean the antagonization of an entire religion, not just a place. "
This is interesting. I have to say I agree insulting back is not helpful, nor my style, and I did not resonate with that bit from Josh. At the same time, I have experienced so much gaslighting, word-twisting and outright psyops type stuff for speaking things that are different from what what others would like me to say, that I get how sarcasm could be a recourse to attack, much as sattire always has been for those who speak truth yet have little other power. The inability of people with good hearts to trust each other is a big problem. It's so hard because we all take our views so seriously but many of them are not truly our own and we often don't know it. If those who control the strings were unstringed, I believe humanity could, with some time to recover from collective PTSD solve its problems and find all way win solutions that respect everyone.
Thank you for saying this 💛
What a fantasy of self-hatred! Anti-Zionism is the most essential anti-Semitism of all. "From the river to the sea.." includes you. Wake up and smell the roses.
Oh geez, you must have posted this without reading any news for the past two months, including how no one said anything antisemitic at the National Book Awards. Embarrassing for you! You can still delete your comment before too many people see it though!
It’s a mitzvah for you to watch the footage of what depravity Hamas did in Israel on October 7. Grow up and realize this is not about Bibi.
Thanks for this comment.
You have no idea what these authors were going to say but you equated anti-ethnic cleansing/genocide and pro-Palestinian sentiments to antisemitism unprovoked. Jewish populations here are marching all over the country for Palestine. Are they antisemitic? Israel govt doesn’t represent all of Israel. They are currently jailing and beating their own citizens for posting on social media, protesting and speaking out against Bibi and his complicit administration officials. Are those Israelis antisemitic? What you did was your choice but it was also cowardice. You will come to see you were on the wrong side of this. The evidence is already all around you.
That you can say this while also using terms like "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" proves her point. Gaza's population has grown and grown since the partition. If you are looking to exterminate a people, you don't try to get Egypt to give hundreds of thousands of them sanctuary. Hate the war. Denounce the bombing. But stop using inaccurate terms that are nothing but propaganda.
Noted scholars educated on ethnic cleansing and genocide, some of them that have survived them and some that are Jewish living in Israel, have said this is a clear case especially with intent being so overt as it comes directly from the the mouths of Israeli government officials including Netanyahu. The only one pushing propaganda here is you and it’s disgusting.
Netanyahu and many of his cronies are murderous schmucks. But what they say and the actual policies enacted are different things. Similarly other "noted scholars" and survivors disagree with your take and the numbers bear that out. I am not saying the loss of life is acceptable but it is not uniquely barbaric and it is not genocide. If Israel was truly bombing indiscriminately then the casualty numbers would be radically higher and if they were seeking "ethnic cleansing," what of the Arabs and Christians within their own borders? Consider that Assad murdered 500,000 Syrians and the world uproar was virtually nil. Consider what is happening in Congo, Nigeria, Armenia and how little attention is being paid. Why? Because the conflict in Gaza is being covered on social media in real time and war is brutal, bloody, and vile.
I note you didn't address any of my other points. You can call me disgusting all you like but language matters and your foaming rage is palpable.
You can disagree and 'both sides the argument concerning the scholars and survivors but I would implore you to look further into who they are and what motives you may be missing. If you're going to talk about "numbers bearing out" cite them. My guess is they don't exist. "Loss of life", and "not uniquely barbaric" are just another way for you to rationalize genocide which is pretty gross and very telling. It is exactly what is happening regardless of your softening language. People much smarter than you have already laid out the case for it including members of the Israeli community. The fact you think they're not bombing indiscriminately while you see major parts of Gaza completely flattened for miles and ignore all the videos of women, children, and young men blown to pieces, suffocated under rubble, sniped, starved to death, and on and on to the tune of at least 11,000 tells me and everyone here that you don't place any value to Palestinian lives and are here to spread lies and propaganda. Absolutely vile.
You can discuss other parts of the world as if this is the only place people bring attention to atrocities but you can't take back your display of utter disregard for Palestinian lives. You've lost your humanity and it shows based on your statements. It is not a war when one side is a nuclear power with the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus on the planet and a powerful military and the only resistance shown is men dressed in plain clothes paragliding and driving in packed trucks with rifles conveniently untouched for 6 hours as they murdered innocent civilians and IDF soldiers. Netanyahu had been supporting Hamas for years and publications in Israel have reported that.
I didn't address your point because you called apartheid a "partition" which is intentional and ridiculous considering human rights organizations and legal experts have classified it as such under international law. Yes, I'm angry but that doesn't make me wrong, that just shows that I care about people dying and you, not so much.
depends on what land you want
Thank you
Not "Jewish populations" but self-hating "Jews for Palestine" who support radical Islam. Shame on them and shame on you.!
Your response showed amazing courage and conscience. I often review books on Amazon and Facebook and now will make a point of supporting books from Zibby media.
Being Pro-Palestine is not antisemitic, being anti-Zionist is not antisemitic (just look at Jewish Voice for Peace). Supporting free speech except when it makes you, a rich and powerful woman, uncomfortable, is moral pornography. Do better.
Being critical of the Israeli government is not antisemitism. I am. But being opposed to the self determination of the Jewish people in their ancestral/indigenous homeland and that it has no right to exist along with it half of the world’s Jewish population (anti-Zionist) is absolutely antisemitism because it is almost exclusively used to erase Jewish history and identity.
The term Anti-Zionism in recent years has in and of itself has become a racial slur used against Jews, but of course, Jews are the one minority group that are not allowed to determine what racism toward them looks like.
You forget, or just unwilling to acknowledge, that Israel was previously Palestine, a homeland also claimed by Palestinians—700,000—who were driven from their land to a small sliver for generations of hopeless existence. Reminds me of the history of the American Indian.
Seems like you’re very much cherry picking your history. The term Palestinian didn’t even exist until the 1960s. Before that it was just Jews and Arabs (both Christian and Muslim). When it was the British Mandate of Palestine the British ruled, before that the Ottoman Empire, before that :
Ayyubid dynasty
Kingdom of Jerusalem
Seljuk Empire
Abbasid Caliphate
Umayyad Caliphate
Rashidun Caliphate
Eastern Roman Empire
Roman Empire
Hasmonean kingdom
Seleucid Empire
Alexander the Great
Achaemenid Empire
Neo-Babylonian Empire
Neo-Assyrian Empire
Kingdoms of Israel and Judaea
All of which included Jews. There has always been a Jewish presence in what is now called Israel but has been called many many things over the years.
I believe the Nakba you’re referring to is when the surrounding Arab countries declared war on Israel and the Arab communities left thinking they would move back once the Jews had been exterminated, only they weren’t, and after which the Jews from all the surrounding counties where ethnically cleansed TO Israel, their belongings and homes taken by the ruling powers that henceforth made their counties Judenfrei. Which is why the vast majority of Jews in Israel are of middle eastern decent.
Now I don’t think that only Jews have claim to the land, but I do believe that they’re the only ones who have ever attempted to make peace. They didn’t start this war, they haven’t started any of the wars in the region, but they also haven’t backed down and just let their people be slaughtered.
Thx Kim for taking the time to post this history lesson. Hope it doesn’t fall on deaf ears. 🙏
Thanks for educating, Kim. I know it’s exhausting and I appreciate you doing it.
Thank you for the list. Possibly I am an idiot for thinking that the only way out of this is for all who have some claim to the land to somehow find a way to work together, complications and history and grievances notwithstanding. Otherwise, mutual destruction.
Agree. It's almost like someone should propose a two state solution. Again. And again. And again. This has never been about land.
It must be about land to some degree. But yes, about other things. I assume you are thinking a two-state solution could never work? If so, any other ideas? (Before I resign myself to things as they are today.)
Thank you.
Pamela, the naqba was not the result of the partition. It was the result of multiple Arab nations declaring war on the newly founded Israel with the goal of wiping it out and murdering its Jewish inhabitants. Yes, some Palestinians were violently displaced. So were many Jews. "But they were colonizers!" No, they weren't. There were Jews living in the protectorate who experienced pogroms at the hands of their Arab neighbors (in Jaffa, Hebron, etc) throughout the 1920s. Gaza was home to a community of Jews that was WIPED OUT in 1929. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were displaced from places like Iraq and Yemen in 1948 (and before). No one has ever called for the return of their homes, their land, their belongings. Israel is not blameless, but this one sided vision of oppressor/oppressed is absolute nonsense.
Also if you're not ready to give back Manhattan, Los Angeles, Toronto, or risk attacks by terrorists (sorry, freedom fighters), maybe don't draw comparisons to indigenous folks in North America.
Yeah, I knew you were a Zionist propagandist using cherry picked and twisted events from the past to explain away a genocide. I just had to scroll further to read your other posts. All your posts are full of half-truths, complete lies, logical fallacies and pro-colonialism garbage. You're basically using the "it's complicated" tactic when the situation is clear as day. You truly are gross.
Thank you for this response!
Jewish voice for Peace are self hating Jews.
You are a Jew hating person. Your moral preening is disgusting. You do better. You think about what it means to be Jewish and see your idiotic judgment.
Wow so upsetting. Good for you! I wish there were more ppl that stood up for us 🥲🥲
Xo Julie cohen
It takes courage to stand by your principles, no matter the prospective backlash, and I hope you'll get the support you need after doing this.
I'm just one person but my admiration grows because of your stance here. I understand the conflicted feelings. We all have our own ideas on what constitutes free speech and how we, as writers, should go about protecting it. But as you say, hate speech can't be thrown about freely. Not in a society that struggles to stay on the right side of democracy, equity, and fair play.
Hang in there, Zibby. And thank you for being on the front lines, doing battle with giants. Prejudice has no place in any of our hearts and if we don't speak out, who will?
Thank you, Zibby, for taking a stand against hate speech. (When did free speech become hate speech?)
You pulled your sponsorship based on a rumor that someone might say something political that you disagreed with?
Based on what it says above, it appears she pulled her funding because the NBF refused to give assurances that if the speeches devolved into outright hate speech there would be no intervention. Since no one knows what’s going to be said, it seems like an easy call for the NBF to say if someone gets on stage and says “ Hitler was right” they might be willing to turn the mic off.
Right?!!!
You are absolutely right and did the right thing. Freedom of speech is one thing but antisemitism and hate speech is not a part of that. It saddens me that NBF wouldn't stand up for what is right, but I'm so proud of you for doing so.
Pro Palestinian is not necessarily "anti-Israel" .......sad.
Explain how it isn’t. It requires a false narrative ascribing evil to the victims of relentless hateful attacks and ascribes victimhood to the unrelenting bloodthirsty maniacs who are hellbent on killing Jews. It reverses cause and effect: Jews were legally given land and Palestinians refused all offers of a share of land insisting on having it all. Then began 75 years of murdering Jews making them gazans unacceptable neighbors not only for Israel -but every other country in the area. They launched thousands of missiles overwhelming Israel’s “dome” and Israel is supposed to leave that stuff intact??? The maniacs have rocket launchers in the schools, tunnels under their hospitals. Israel is supposed to just let them keep that? It is the most irrationally humane thing in history that Israel provided more than a week for civilians to evacuate, and even had to get Hamas out of the way so citizens could flee before Israel began its just attack in earnest. Name any other time or place where a nation behaved that way to an active aggressor after yet another viscious attack on civilians. Israel isn’t targeting civilians. Israel is targeting the rocket launchers, tunnels, and murderers that Hamas tries to shield with civilians.
The body count makes you a blatant liar.
Your bio sums it up perfectly. All you do is follow Libs of TikTok and troll people. One lame ass existence. Get out of that basement in St. Petersburg and lay off the vodka. Your mother is highly disappointed. She deserves better.
Narrow minded subhuman cretin much? Jesus Bruh
No. First, the classic agitprop bullshit demand of “prove this negative”....You are confusing Palestinians with Hamas. Just like there is a difference between Israel, it’s citizens and the Israeli government. The latter is one of the largest terrorist organizations on earth. One more disingenuous nonsensical gibberish and you are fodder for the block cannons.
Your disingenuous bullshit is quite offputting.
I’m so sorry to see this. I’m encouraged that there are brave and courageous voices like yours in media calling out hypocrisy and wish honestly there were more people than Josh Gad, Sarah Silverman and Amy Schumer actively trying to right wrongs here. How can we condone this type of behavior? We have to look inside ourselves and decide when enough is enough. This is a personal choice and I get it but this is for the collective survival of the Jewish people. Why can’t people be compelled to stand against hateful actions
You ask that last question after saying Silverman (wore blackface and has uttered vile racist jokes) and Silverman (racist posts about Palestinians) are trying to right wrongs. Why can’t people be compelled to stand against hateful actions indeed.
Glad to see your comment because scrolling through these I’m feeling quite disheartened (of course not at all surprised!). I agree we need more voices.
Thank you, Zibby. You are a light in these dark times for the Jewish people.
Thank you Zibby for demonstrating the moral fiber that the leadership in publishing, universities, and the literary community should be showing in the face of the oldest form of hatred.
Standing ovation Zibby!!!!
Once again, you are a shining example of the proper response!
NBF is buckling under to evil on their false grounds of free speech!
Thank you, Zibby! Good for you for pulling out and taking a stand. We need more people doing this. Kol Hakavod. 👏